nontraditional relationships

Consensual Non-Consent In BDSM/Kink

December 27, 2020 By PirateStan 4 Comments

Webster’s defines “oxymoron” as “a combination of contradictory or incongruous words”. Examples include such things as original copy, freezer burn, genuine fake, quiet roar, controlled chaos, silent scream, terribly good, passive aggressive, random order, and jumbo shrimp (some would put military intelligence in there as well).

And then there’s “nonconsenual consent”. What the hell does that mean? isn’t it dangerous? How can that possibly be safe, sane, and… ehrrr… consensual?

The simplest answer is that nonconsensual consent is, essentially, rape play (another oxymoron). It’s where you and a partner engage in a scene that mimics a sexual assault… within the parameters you both set.

Now let’s set this out at the beginning; this is a potentially dangerous and dark corner of BDSM that isn’t for everyone and, even for those it is, shouldn’t be entered into lightly. It’s been my experience that many gals who claim they’re looking for rape play have actually been raped; engaging in a controlled, pretend form of it could well be cathartic, or it could be horribly disastrous.

It’s certainly advanced play and definitely a deep end you shouldn’t jump into during your learning period of the scene. It also requires (typically long-term) partners who understand and intuit each other very well, as often the scene will go beyond simple negotiations, into areas and feelings you may not have been able to initially comprehend.

All parties involved need to have a deep understanding and comprehension of, and be very good at “reading”, each other. This is particularly important for the top (the rape-er) with regards to the bottom (the rape-ee).

You really can’t engage in too much preparation, as nonsensual consent isn’t something to be entered into lightly. If a scene goes south it can get very ugly very quickly. It’s not like hitting someone in the wrong spot; this can leave seriously psychological damage if done improperly.

Not that this sort of scene necessarily involve only two people. Indeed, if the bottom wants to be truly physically subdued while they’re fighting back, then at least two tops need to be involved.

It’s important to discuss ahead of time what each of you is hoping to achieve from the scene, emotionally and physically. And it’s perhaps even more important to have a safe word or gesture in place should things get too intense. Because it’s been my experience that they can become very, very intense.

Also, since roughly 70-80% of women have actually been raped to some degree, it’s vitally important to be aware of any triggers which may be present, and avoid them at all costs.

And this brings us to the rules, of which there aren’t any, at least ones that are set in stone. Some won’t want their face slapped, others will. Some won’t want a knife involved, others will want to be cut. Some won’t want physical violence, others will relish the pain and resulting bruises.

Then there’s what the top is looking for. Some will enjoy physically restraining someone who’s fighting back, others won’t. Some will want a bottom who’s fighting back, others will want a more passive victim. Some will enjoy name calling, others will prefer to be more genteel (at least as genteel as a pretend-rapist can be I suppose).

As mentioned, scenes can be as simple as a one-on-one between two partners, all the way to a full-on abduction, where the bottom is grabbed off the street, trussed up in a filthy van, and dragged away to an unknown location to have who-knows-what done to them (said who-knows-what having been negotiated ahead of time).

It should be added that the latter sort of scene requires a tremendous amount of planning with skilled, experienced tops. At its most basic level, you don’t want to be seen abducting someone in broad daylight, as most citizens will tend to dial 911. And explaining things to the police will harsh your buzz pretty quick.

Myself, I’ve only engaged in this sort of scene a handful of times, having found that it’s an itch that can be scratched relatively easily. Still, they were all very intense and satisfying, for both parties involved. They all tended to be of a type, one of which I can share as an example.

The victim, a gal I had been intimate with for some small time, agreed to be wrapped securely and inescapably in large amounts of duct tape, over clothing which was no longer terribly viable; indeed, it needed to be tossed out. Since neither of us cared for the wrestle-someone-into-bondage scenario, we agreed that she’d wake up already bound and gagged.

Enter myself, the villian. Armed only with a pair of scissors I was to cut her clothing off such that she’d be sexually available while still keeping her securely bound & gagged. And this I did do with great gusto. I took special pains to ensure that when I grabbed her shirt and bra to cut them off, I also grabbed her nipple by “accident” and pretended I was going to cut it off as well. She later admitted that she’d almost safe worded here, she was so terrified.

She, of course, fought back as best she could, but I’d tied her so she couldn’t engage in very much of that. Still, a lot of wrestling was involved; we both got pretty good workouts. There wasn’t much clothing left that wasn’t attached to duct tape.

In the end I cut off enough of her pants and undies such that I had full availability of her lady parts which, unlike in an actual rape, were extremely well lubricated. For the record, it is entirely possible to enter a lady whose legs are tied if you pull her knees towards her chest and come in from behind.

After, releasing her took very little time, as duct tape is easy to cut off, and it was mostly attached to her clothing. We had both found it very satisfying, if exhausting.

Of course, what tripped our triggers may leave you cold. Only you and a willing partner(s) can decide what you’re looking for, if this is even something you’re interested in. I certainly don’t recommend it for everyone and it shouldn’t necessarily be on your kinky bucket list.

Still, if it’s something you might find intriguing, find a partner, do your research, get to know each other, and perhaps give it a go. But be careful! This is not the sort of scene that is terriby forgiving should things go south.

PirateStan has been involved in his local BDSM community since 2007, after having had a lifelong inclination towards it. He currently lives a contented life in Southeastern Virginia with his girl, zeirah, while working by day for a Major Metropolitan Publication.

Polyfeels: Jealousy

July 30, 2018 By Eden 6 Comments

When you’re sitting at home with your heart in your throat and your phone in your hand, you’ve already screwed yourself over: your partner is out with somebody new, and all you’ve planned to do is compulsively check facebook while your jealousy makes you physically ill. It’s one of the worst feelings in the world, and if you’re Poly, you either are or will become intimately familiar with it. In this article, I’m going to talk specifically about jealousy as it relates to people practicing ethical nonmonogamy, otherwise known as polyamory.

Jealousy is one of those emotions that drives archetypal “villain” characters in almost every story, whether it’s the Evil Queen out to get her stepdaughter or an angry ex-lover determined to seek retribution. But in reality, jealousy isn’t exclusive to bad guys…we all feel it from time to time. Mercifully, it’s usually in bite-sized doses. But sometimes, we choke on it.

I never considered myself to be a jealous person, but the first time I saw my girlfriend kissing her other female partner, a twinge of mild annoyance hit me like an involuntary muscle twitch. I didn’t know what it was or why it was happening…I was the most recently integrated partner, after all. I knew about both of my Dominant’s other people, and over the next few months, I would come to genuinely love my metamour in a sincere, ever-evolving fashion. I thought the jealousy I once felt was starved half-to-death, but I was shocked to discover it lurking in the darker recesses of my heart, very much alive. It came out at weird times, and so I tried to predict it, but it kept not showing up on-schedule. I realized that the jealousy was illogical. There was no external stimuli that could provoke it, although at first I thought there was. The ugly truth settled over me: I wasn’t feeling jealous because my partner/s had done something, I was feeling jealous because I was afraid.

Fear is a powerful motivator, and in my opinion, the root of all jealousy. Because fear is inherently mercurial, my jealousy also felt fickle at the best of times. Once I connected the dots, however, I started to understand how to dismantle my jealousy. Don’t get me wrong…this is still an ongoing battle for me, but it’s one worth fighting because most of the time, I win.

Here are some of the tactics I use when jealousy arises. Hopefully, you’ll find something here that works for you.

Figure out the facts: What’s actually happening right here, right now? I mean, literally make a list of things that are true, not intuited. Compile this fact list because chances are, doing that alone will banish some of your demons.

Realize you are not helpless: Sometimes we convince ourselves that we are powerless in certain situations, but that’s just not true. There is always a choice to be made, and you always have the right to make it. We can’t control every aspect of our lives, but we do have authority over how we behave. Even if it doesn’t feel like much in the moment, that’s saying something.

Admit what you’re afraid of: Oftentimes, the thing we are most terrified of is being abandoned, discarded, or replaced. Loss is attached to some pretty painful emotions, and so it makes sense that most people fear it. Another common poly heartache is managing the division of time between multiple partners, especially if you used to have unlimited access to your lover. Our fears can be based in some pretty harsh realities, but there are still healthy ways to cope with them so that they don’t run your life.

Ask for reassurance: While you should never rely on somebody else to be your all-purpose pacifier when you feel like you aren’t handling your jealousy well, it’s okay to check in with your partner to talk about your fears and what you’re feeling, no matter how irrational you believe your worries to be. Part of living poly is processing tough stuff together. If you aren’t willing to admit out loud that you’re struggling, people are going to make mistakes and feelings are going to get hurt. It’s okay to ask for help. It’s okay to not know why you’re feeling a certain way. Just be honest and gentle, not only with your partner/s, but with yourself.

Know that you are enough: You have been enough since you were born, you are enough right now, and you will always be enough for as long as you live. Nobody can give you that gift: you already have it. It’s not up to your partner to make you believe this is true, and it’s also not within their power to take this away from you. Believe that you are worth it. Know that even if the worst happens and somebody leaves you, you will still be able to lead a life filled with love and joy and great purpose. Breakups are hard, no doubt about that, but they won’t destroy you. Only you can destroy you.

Refocus your energy: Instead of overthinking and fixating on the absence of your partner, fill your life with exciting things that are just for you. Go see a movie, write until your fingers cramp, read a good book, take a long bath, watch a favorite TV show, call a friend, take up a new hobby…whatever it takes to make YOU your main focus instead of your partner and their evening plans.

It’s not about you: The reality is, even in a poly triad where everybody is dating each other, there are three separate relationships going on inside of a fourth mega-relationship. It’s not your burden or your right to monitor somebody else’s relationship. When two people are alone together, it most likely has nothing to do with you. And that’s beautiful, because it gives you the freedom to think about yourself outside of whatever it is they’re doing. Find relief in the fact that you can choose to let it go and move on with your night.

Love is more powerful than fear: I said before that fear is a powerful motivator, but compassion and love are infinitely more powerful. Polyamory by definition means “many loves,” and that’s the real reason that we can triumph in the face of jealousy. No fear will be able to withstand the strength of your love if you choose to call upon it, and through your love, you will start to experience the opposite of jealousy…compersion. You will take joy in your partner/s joy.

At the end of the day, jealousy can feel like a hydra that keeps sprouting new heads, but when you cut it down to size and dissect the fear beneath, it suddenly becomes more manageable. Remember, nobody is immune to jealousy. No matter how intelligent you are, how skilled you are at self-analysis, you will experience jealousy because you are human. Instead of evading it or beating yourself up for feeling it, take out your sword and face it with determination. This is, after all, not a battle between you and your partner/s, but a battle between you and yourself. Polyamory offers demanding challenges like this, but if you face them instead of running away, you will emerge as a stronger, more self-aware individual. The rewards of Poly-love will follow, and they are many. After all, why do you think they call it “poly”?

About the Author

Eden studied Creative Writing and Theater at one of the many Cal State Universities. She is a self-identified poly queer woman who draws on her experiences as a submissive to talk about various issues and hot-topics in the Kink Community. She hopes that her writings will reach other new people in the scene to let them know they are not alone. If you’d like to contact Eden, please feel free to look her up on Fetlife under the handle little_miss_eden.

Is Long-Term Poly Possible?

July 10, 2017 By Baadmaster 2 Comments

I have already written some articles on kinkweekly.com on polyamory. Still, I get quizzed on poly triads more than on any other BDSM topic. Perhaps it is the fantasy. The Dom/me having two slaves to serve him/her is ultra hot. But I am talking about more than just a casual threesome which happens as much in the vanilla world as around here. I am examining long-term poly relationships and the big question, “Is long-term poly really possible?”

In my opinion, in the short term, the answer is definitely yes. The excitement of a new poly relationship is much like the “honeymoon” period of any liaison. And it works for a while. As to long-term polyamory, that is a bit more problematical. BDSM relationships between two people are notoriously short-lived. When you add a third human being into the D/s mix, you are just complexifying (my word!) an already hard-to-maintain relationship. I am living testament to this sad truth; I personally have gone oh-for-two in long-term triads. (Of course there are many long-lived, wonderful poly relationships. But these are the exceptions, not the rule.)

So why is polyamory so difficult? In the typical poly relationship with an alpha and a beta slave, someone is voluntarily accepting being lower on the totem pole. The concept of “I live for my Master/Mistress and will serve him/her as the “beta slave” works fine in theory – or online! But this is a hard mental space to maintain in real time. Most people, in any type of relationship from fetish to vanilla, like to be ‘numero uno’ with respect to their significant other. And the alpha, although first in the pecking order, still must learn to share the Master/Mistress. For both submissives, this is easier said than done.

Unlearning ego, jealousy and possessiveness, which both the beta and the alpha slave must do, is extremely difficult. But although it is difficult, it is not impossible. In order to override these natural needs, both slaves must ultimately embrace — whether through training or other means — their respective statuses.

I might add that in the poly world the most popular arrangement seems to be an alpha-beta hierarchy for the submissives. But there are other polyamory systems. The alpha-alpha structure of two equal slaves is another way of setting up poly. As I had stated in a previous article, I believe that an “alpha-alpha” system might be easier to maintain for the Dominant. If the Dom/me can divide his/her attentions somewhat evenly, resentment can be eliminated as a divisive issue. After all, there is no “beta slave” who, by definition, gets less attention. I think this is less adversarial to human nature than alpha-beta and likely easier to maintain in the long run. But this is just a guess. We are dealing with human relationships here, not science. And many other systems keep popping up as people experiment in ways to make poly work.

As much as I love poly, I truly believe it is antithetical to basic human nature. It requires work to overcome this hurdle. A lot of work. If a Master/Mistress has accomplished the formidable task of finding/training two slaves who are totally happy serving, I believe it is less about the system/hierarchy than about the basic compatibility of the three people. I think this is the key. You can talk about alpha/beta or an alpha/alpha type arrangements until you are blue in the face. Ultimately, my two failed attempts at long-term poly were unsuccessful because the people involved weren’t comfortable with each other over time. And that is the key.

Getting two people to be intimate over a long period is tough enough. (Just look at the divorce rates.) So imagine the odds of three people getting on in a demanding D/s arrangement. “Is long-term poly possible?” The answer is “yes,” – but it might take a while before three ultra-compatible lifestylers are found.

By BaadMaster
After a ten year run as head writer for the legendary bondage.com, and an equally long run as the host of the hit internet show “Baadmaster’s Dungeon,” we are pleased to welcome the one and only Baadmaster to KinkWeekly. His thoughts about all things BDSM will now appear regularly on these pages. From the mental aspects of D/s to the nuts and bolts of S&M play, Baadmaster will cover every facet of this ever expanding lifestyle.

Your Poly is Not My Poly and That’s OK!

December 12, 2016 By Jenn Masri 1 Comment

So you see people identify as “poly” or “monogamous” (aka mono). Seems pretty clear cut. I wish it were that easy. When it comes to poly there are a gajillion variations. (Not an official number – lol) You can ask a dozen poly identified people to describe how they “do” poly and you are likely to get a dozen different answers.

For some they are romantically mono but agree that they and their romantic partner can play or have sex with others. For some they can only play with others – no romantic or sexual involvement. In some cases, partners have agreed that only one of them can have an additional outside partner – or that they can share one or more partners. Perhaps they share a romantic partner or play/sexual partners. Perhaps it’s closed and only a certain number of partners are allowed or open and people in the poly “pod” are allowed to date, play, and/or have sexual relations with others. The list is really endless when you consider all the various options and combinations.

An interesting twist is that one person may not do the same kind of poly based on their partner. Let me explain what I mean. At one point an individual may find themselves involved with an existing couple – for the purpose of this article I will use the term “secondary” to describe this person. However, let’s say that relationship ends and the person finds their own “primary” partner. The partner, based on what they know of the person’s relationship history, may expect that they are poly in any way. For example, this partner wants to bring in a secondary partner. They expect it to be an easy adjustment based on the fact that their partner has been a secondary in a poly triad. This may not be the case. It may not be the case by a long shot. Just because someone has been in a poly relationship, this doesn’t mean any poly dynamic will be comfortable for them. If you find yourself in this kind of situation, handle the transition just as you would if poly were a new thing for your partner. Because, essentially, it is brand new. This particular type of poly dynamic may be one that they have no experience with. Not all poly is the same and just because you have experience with one structure or one role doesn’t mean other roles or structures will work for you.

Poly can be a wonderful thing. It can lead to multiple fulfilling relationships and/ or fun adventures. However, nobody will say it’s always easy. Part of the difficulty comes back to “know thyself” as in “know thy poly”. Part of the journey is figuring out what kind of poly works for you and for you and those in your life. So be honest with yourself first, then be honest with your partner. Be patient and understanding and remember that it’s not all the same.

Jennifer Masri is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, specializing in Alternative Lifestyles for individual and relationship issues. She also teaches the BDSM 101 class series at Sanctuary LAX in Los Angeles every Monday evening. Read more about Jennifer on her blog, A Kink Shrink.

Power Exchange vs. Power Struggle

July 5, 2016 By Jenn Masri 2 Comments

When I was married I was in a power exchange relationship – except I didn’t know it. He believed that we should have certain roles in the relationship. It wasn’t based on gender. For example – if one person works, the other takes care of the house. Who works depends on who makes more money. As far as personality he was dominant, but not in a healthy way. Without disclosing too much I will just say that I think it was that “take charge” attitude that attracted me, yet I didn’t realize at the time (I was only 18 when we met) that it was more of an unhealthy control issue for him. However, even though there was a control dynamic there, it was in a very vanilla way. I had not consented to a power exchange and, in fact, had no clue what that even was. I had no idea about this world of kink and D/s. So having been raised by a very strong and independent mother, I struggled for control in the relationship as well.

Now that I’ve been in this scene and in D/s relationships I can look back on my vanilla marriage and see that it was a power struggle. Not power exchange. I believe that many, if not most, vanilla relationships deal with power struggle. There are no clear boundaries or expectations set. Both people are vying for control and the result is fighting, passive aggressive behavior, and built up resentment.

Disclaimer: if you find yourself thinking, “not all vanilla relationships are like that” or “are you saying vanilla relationships are inferior?” or ……. (you get the point). I am not saying this theory applies to all vanilla relationships. Nor am I saying that vanilla relationships are inferior. I am speaking to one little piece of the puzzle that I see as a common theme in vanilla versus power exchange dynamic.

I will use a simple example. For many couples it’s common for them to let their partner know they arrived at their destination safely. (friends do this too) Let’s apply this to a vanilla couple first. One person (person A) is going somewhere and their partner (B) asks them to send a text when they get there so they know they arrived safely. Person A forgets. Partner B is worried and finally gets thru to person A. They are relieved that person A is safe, however, now they are also angry that person A forgot to text and feels it was inconsiderate and not taking their feelings of concern into account. When person A gets home, person B expresses their anger and they get into a fight about it because person A didn’t mean to be inconsiderate – they just got distracted. Yet, arguing ensues due to feeling hurt, disappointed, unfairly accused, etc.

Apply the same scenario to a power exchange couple. In this case it has been established that the text is a part of their protocol and it is an expectation. Partner A knows that if the text doesn’t happen there will be some sort of punishment. Partner A forgets to text. Partner B is worried, then angry/disappointed, just like in the vanilla scenario. The difference is twofold. First, the expectation was set and, therefore, person A accepts responsibility for their mistake and doesn’t try to argue their case. Yes, there is human error regarding memory, distraction, etc. and person A didn’t do it on purpose. However, the protocol was broken. Second, later that night when they come home, person B explains why they were upset, reminds person A about the reason for the protocol and carries out the punishment. Person A accepts the punishment and apologizes for breaking protocol. They hug it out. They move on with their evening. No struggle for who’s “right” or lashing out in anger. It’s done.

If looked at from this perspective I really think this is one reason why D/s relationships are my preference. Everyone knows what’s expected of them. There isn’t a struggle for Dominance or control. It’s not to say there isn’t struggle or fighting in D/s relationships. However, I think there’s a lot less, especially when it comes to the smaller things. Please feel free to tell me about some of your experiences with power struggle vs. exchange in the comment section below!

anniebear Interviews Wry: Non Monogomy Consultant

April 26, 2016 By anniebear 1 Comment

anniebear: You’re an educator, specializing in teaching about polyamorous relationships, non monogamy, and managing multiple partners. And there are a lot of ways to describe poly such as non-monogamous and then there’s “monogamish” that’s been thrown around more lately. How would you describe yourself and your relationships?

Wry: I practice a form of descriptive hierarchy with egalitarian feminism with D/s BDSM elements. That’s a whole lot of key words and terms that people are going to be Googling, because none of that is particularly well known. Not nearly as popular as the words polyamory or non monogamy.

As it is, even non-monogamy needs to be defined, because people disagree on what that means. What does monogamy even mean? I’ve known swingers who identify as monogamists, because they are describing their heart: they only have one loving relationship and everything else is just casual fun for them.

Now I’m not saying that all swingers are that way. I’m just saying that all three words are so hard to define and they’re regional. Even within the region, people will disagree. Why is that? Well we’re coining these terms. A lot of words like love have been around for hundreds of years, but the word polyamorous was coined around 1991.

So it’s a really new word.

It’s extremely new. It was coined by Morning Glory and it wasn’t exactly spelled as “polyamorous”. You can Google this and find the exact story.

She wrote an article called “A Bouquet of Lovers” and that was the first time the word polyamorous was ever in print. About one year later, there was a message board called Polyamory. 1991-92 is how new this word is. It doesn’t mean the concept is that new, but the word itself is, so the definition can be difficult to pin down.

And I could see how it becomes really confusing for people just starting out and trying to explore it.

There are two huge schools of thought on this. One is we need as many words and labels as possible in order to clarify what we’re talking about and to be on the same page. The other camp is the idea that labels are inherently confusing, thus, the more we divide and label everything, the more we’ll be confused and be stuck in whatever self-identifications we have, instead of fluidity and freedom to move about.

Monogamy is inherently this very established, traditional, mainstream concept that many people are stuck in. We’re looking to break out of that and have more options. At least have the options. To be clear, I am very pro-monogamy. I think if you’re monogamous and you’re happy, then you’re happy. And if you’re whatever alternative style and you’re happy, then you’re happy. I consider myself Relationship Positive.

Wry pictured with his three girlfriends.

Right, whatever your relationship is to you and it works for you that’s you’re thing and go get em’!

Yes. I end up being the Contrarian Defender. When people are talking shit about a particular style, I end up defending monogamy against some of the more aggressive polyamory activists. I defend hierarchy against relationship anarchy people. I defend DADT (Don’t Ask Don’t Tell) against everyone, (laughs) because that one’s probably the most popular style, but also the most hated.

Sure, yea that one sounds really scary to me! (Laughs) but that’s me.

Well, it all sounds scary to somebody. Monogamy is scary as hell to me. I can’t do it. I’m incapable. In the past, I have had some very successful relationships that were monogamous. The last one that I had I ended, because she wanted my babies. I do not want to have children ever. And she wanted not just babies, but mine in particular, and that was the end. I’ve never been monogamous since. Not for more than, a group of months. The intention is always to be open and polyamorous in some way.

Got it, so you kind of answered this a little bit a second ago. Do you believe in the theory that some people are hardwired to be either monogamous or poly? Similar to people being either vanilla or kinky?

We’re getting into genetics here. DNA and Nature vs. Nurture and environment. We’re getting into free will and choice. I think there are imperfect parallels that you can draw when it comes to sexual identity. You’ve got basically heterosexual, homosexual, and pansexual and if you want to draw the direct parallel, you might have all these different spectrums and false dichotomies. It often seems like it’s an On-Off switch, but it’s not. One of the mix ups people make is thinking that polyamory and open relationships are on the same spectrum. They might say, “I’m more open than I am poly” or “I’m more poly then I am open”. But that’s really comparing apples and oranges. Really where you have it is open vs. closed OR polyamory vs monoamory. Those are direct opposites.

I think that we’re born as an amorphous mess of brain cells that have very little coherency. With our DNA plus influence from every little element of our environment, somehow we find an identity. And hen we end up changing identities over the course of a lifetime.

As a young man, I identified as traditionally monogamous, seeking one marriage partner for life, no other pre-marital sex. That was my goal for as far as I could remember up until my early twenties. Now I’m Mr. Polyamorous Guy. I wouldn’t change it for anyone, no matter what. It’s so much a part of my identity. It’s hard to even picture that old version of me that was monogamous. So on some level, there’s no agreed upon word for it, but it’s like we’re all poly-flexible on some level. Now, of course, there are extremists and now I have become one. We joke around about celebrity crushes and people ask me, “Would you go monogamous for your celebrity crush?” And the answer is absolutely not.

I wouldn’t, I can’t. It is emotionally painful for me to try to function in a non-polyamorous, closed relationship. I feel trapped. I get kind of crazy with jealousy. I’m always trying to enforce rules. I’m just a bad guy when I try to be monogamous.

That’s interesting that you go to the opposite extreme with monogamy. To be the enforcer with the jealousy and rules.

Rules and respect are incredibly important to me, no matter what style I’m practicing. A lot of people don’t agree with me. They hate the words rules. They want to use concepts like personal boundaries, agreements, negotiations; I don’t have an issue with the word rules, so I use it. You break a rule, then I’m pissed and I’m hurt, I’m insulted and offended. We agreed to this! This is not just me going top down, nor do I dictate what all the rules will be. It’s an agreement and negotiation.

I remember when I was monogamous when my long term girlfriend got drunk on her birthday and made out with her friend who was a girl, but not her girlfriend. I got very upset by this, because there was nobody on earth that I was allowed to make out with and it didn’t feel fair to me. I wanted the same freedom she had.

There is a bit of a double standard there.

There is. And I think that double standard is actually the key to the mainstream coming to understand polyamory. The typical fantasy, the mainstream Playboy-Hustler kind of mentality, is that you’ve got a monogamish situation. That’s also a new word, relatively. Dan Savage coined it around 2004; I believe he’s personally responsible for that word.

People talk about, “Hey, let’s have a relationship and get married and maybe someday we’ll play around with a threesome and bring in another girl”. Or, “it would be so great for me to watch my girlfriend make out with another woman”. Inherently, that is compersion. Erotic and kinky as well. Many are in denial that this is a polyamorous compersion moment where their partner is having great erotic and fun joy with someone else. The mainstream already relates and understands this scenario. They think it’s great! They masturbate to this concept and they talk about it, even when they’re just in bed with each other. It’s all over the news and movies. And yet, we don’t usually refer to that as compersion, for some reason, but it is.

People call it fantasies.

Yes! And what’s wrong with that, right? It’s CNM (Consensual Non-Monogamy). And fully ethical in my book. People are often in denial about how non-monogamous they really are, internally in thought and desire, if not externally in action as well.

So where would you like to see the future of poly and open relationships go in the mainstream? Do you want it to go so far as to be able to legally marry multiple people or just more of an acceptance?

It’s a big question. There are a lot of directions it needs to go. Number one, the most important thing on a legal basis is an anti-discrimination law regarding this lifestyle. Currently in America, you can’t be discriminated against for your religion, gender, or race, but you can be discriminated against for having two girlfriends or 2 husbands. If you have a morality clause that you’ve signed with a family-friendly corporation, you can get fired if you post the wrong picture on Facebook.

Similarly, the number one issue in my opinion, and in the opinion of John Pérez, the Speaker of the House of California who is openly gay: the number one issue in LGBTQ activism is not gay marriage, but gay firing. What’s happening is a gay marriage on Sunday, then on Monday you post about it on Facebook and update your status, and by Tuesday, you’re fired. That’s legal in 28 states right now.

Wow, I had no idea.

Most people don’t realize this, because we’re in the insulated Left Coast bubble of California where we think everything is so liberal, even though it’s not. This issue is not even being broached in the slightest when it comes to polyamory and non-monogamy. Not in the slightest. The fact is that you can get fired for being polyamorous. People are in utter denial and I have to tell them anecdote after anecdote about people who are scared. They’re at work scared to reveal themselves even online in conversation.

There’s a local researcher and PHD student named Ryan Witherspoon, good friend of mine ,he’s joined me on stage. He’s done a lot of research about the stress and stigma of identifying as polyamorous. There are situations that make us run away into the closet. We usually use the term “closet” to talk about homosexuality, but polyamory absolutely has a closet, BDSM has a closet, etc.

When you show up to the Christmas party with three dates you, better believe there’s going to be rumors and gossiping and issues with that. And if I show up with a rotation of partners- one girlfriend for this business dinner- then I show up with a different partner and them another a few months later with the other partner. Well, then the hushed voices start and they say, “Are you still with her? I liked the first one. What happened?!”

I’m dating all of them!

Right, I’m dating all of them. Settled down; we’re still together! It’s been four years, two years, and one year. That’s the actual numbers for my three girlfriends who have other partners as well, some of which are into the one year anniversary territory. They’re steady and stable too. Until they are not. No matter. Monogamous couples breakup and get back together too. We’re not all that different.

And we all have casual partners too. We’re a little wild. We’re not mimicking hetero-normativity, mono-normativity. That’s not our lives. We’re also selective. We’re not having sex with everybody. I literally turn down attractive, willing women who approach me for sex quite often. I’m not bragging, I’m demonstrating a point. There are tons of memes about this, such as: “Yes, I’m open and poly, but NO, I won’t have sex with you.”

Right because it’s not necessarily what it’s about. It’s not a numbers game

Even if you’re monogamous and single, a lot of monogamous-identified single people are having multiple sex partners in a given week or month. They are completely free to do as they wish. And they certainly do. Nobody just assumes that if you’re single, you’ll sleep with me. It’s not that simple of a situation. It’s a person to person consent issue, not just an assumption of sex. At least, it should be person to person.

Have you ever received direct negative backlash from family or friends because of your lifestyle?

Yes. Very much so. There are portions of my family that think I’m ruining society.

How dare you.

There are family members who just don’t want to talk about it. They have their issue with what I’m doing. Code of silence. When I talk about my successes or if I say, “Check out the interview I did yesterday on KinkyWeekly”, they refuse. They won’t look. They’ll just say, “That’s not my thing, but congrats. I don’t agree with your lifestyle.”

And then there are other family members that just laugh and think I’m funny. They see me as some kind of single bachelor that’s living a wild life and that there’s no seriousness or commitment to my relationships.

Right, which is annoying as well.

There are the ones that just get it and they’re really into what I’m doing as an activist and educator, even though they have their happy marriage of a decade+. They’re just so happy for me and they have friends who are like me. Of course, that tends to be the younger generations. But don’t get me wrong, it is not easy to be out about poly to everyone on earth. That is not an easy thing and I don’t recommend it for everyone. I don’t think that everyone has the mental and emotional and financial freedom and privilege to be as out as I am. That’s a huge reason why I’m doing it, because I can. I can handle it in all those ways. Plus, intersectionality is important. If you’re already dealing with other discrimination in your life, then it’s harder to add an additional difficulty to it, especially when it’s so optional. We’re an invisible sexual minority group. You can’t walk down the street and just pick out who the polyamorous people are. It’s like skin color or even a gay pride flag. Most people have no idea there is a poly flag and wouldn’t notice it on the street.

Switching gears a bit, you’re classes have been doing really well. Wry Talks and Poly Relationships; I know you’ve been teaching at Stockroom and some universities and now you’ve teamed up with Janet Hardy, the author of The Ethical Slut. Do you want to talk a bit about what’s coming up next for you guys?

The Poly Talks and Wry Relationships panel discussion at Stockroom in Los Angeles.

Yes! We’re working on some dates outside of California. It’s too soon to announce all dates, but I am working on a nation wide tour over the next 18 months. Some of those dates have been set and there will be other special guests like Tristan Taormino (author of Opening Up and a dozen other books). And Janet Hardy will join me again onstage. Plus many more special guests. Remember, Janet co-authored not only The Ethical Slut, but also a dozen other books. They are both legends in this field. The Ethical Slut was published in 1997. I honestly think she changed America, along with her co-author Dossie Easton. At the time, Janet using a pen name in 97’ and couldn’t use her real name for various reasons. So a lot of people didn’t even realize it was her until later when they put out the second edition in 2009. We have a real mutual respect for each other. We don’t agree on every little issue, but nobody does.

Well if its two people with the exact same ideas going across the country teaching things then you don’t get the whole perspective.

It’s true and there’s a generational issue too. I’m 32 and she’s 61. It’s literally a generation gap of difference. I can’t imagine what it was like to try to be polyamorous in the 90’s when she was forging the path. I have no concept of that and of actually the lived experience of that.

It makes for very lively debates on each other’s Facebook wall. I love that. Conversing deeply, onstage and off, with my idols and literature mentors is just incredible. They inspire me constantly. I really value the words and insight of queer women.

Wry and Janet Hardy, author of The Ethical Slut.

That’s incredible, I’m personally a huge fan of The Ethical Slut. It was one of the first books I read when I got into the BDSM lifestyle and I think its really incredible that you’ve managed to make all of this come together, its really great for everyone to benefit from it. Are the people coming to your classes is it primarily lifestlyers or people fro the general public or curious?

That question is similar to who goes to a sex toy shop.

Right! (laughs)

There are percentages that lean toward the lifestyle and others lean toward the more open minded, but there are curious people who just go in and look around. There are monogamous people who will never experiment with this lifestyle that will come to my events in order to be exposed to it and to learn about it and to have their curiosity sated. That can feel a bit like a circus sideshow, but I’m quite the entertainer, so I love it. There are a lot of couples who are actively in the process of opening up which I always recommend to them to buy the book Opening Up by Tristan Taomino. Because I have little experience in opening up. I’ve done it maybe once or twice. The rest of the time, I’ve tried to start open and poly from day one and stay that way. I greatly dislike the idea of forming an established, monogamous relationship for months or years, and then trying to open that up. So there’s only so much I know about that process and no one is better at teaching it than Tristan. I can’t wait to join her on stage in San Diego around June 23rd. We’re still solidifying some details. It will be sometime that weekend.

Got it. For someone maybe looking for a relationship or has discovered that they are more interested in a non monogamous or potential poly situation, what advice would you offer them?

Number one goal: Seek community. Whether it’s online or locally, you need actual friends living this life as role models, because there are none. If you look to mainstream theatre and film, the last mainstream film that I’m aware of that had any kind of consensual non-monogamy was “Savages” in 2012. That was four years ago! How many films have featured monogamy in them since then? All of them? (Laughs)

In recent times Netflix and other networks like it are catering to the niches and specifically feature a lot more diversity in that are. “House of Cards” is a hot topic right now, featuring an open and consensual polyamorous marriage. Of course there are all kinds of other flaws in those lead characters, which is a problem. We’re seeing limited exposure of our lifestyle being presented by ethically flawed characters. But there will be more representation as time goes on. Since we don’t have much presence in the media, we need to seek our own representation and role models in the community. They’re our best source for advice and examples of what went right and how to avoid what might go wrong. Even the books that you might buy, which the three tops books are The Ethical Slut, Opening Up, and More Than Two, those are the three most important. If you’re doing this lifestyle and you haven’t read those books you’re being negligent. You’ve got to read those three books. Take the time and do it!

Even those books tend to lean toward what works. Sometimes you learn the most from what really crashed and burned. You’re going to get both from your community: the horror stories and the process of growth, since we all go through this. I’m constantly reminding people that I used to be a virgin! It’s true. Really.

Also, I used to be monogamous. I was not always this conversant on the topic. So don’t expect yourself to be from day one saying, “Oh I just declared yesterday that I’m polyamorous and now I know everything and I know how to do this.” The reality is that this is a second adolescence. I have co-opted and pulled that term from gay and trans culture when you suddenly declare yourself as a new sexual identity. There is a learning process that takes 4 or 5 years, not 4 or 5 months.

It’s almost like you’re 14 again. You don’t know how to talk to your crush and then you muster the courage and do it, finally. You get up the nerve or they hit on you and get over your bashfulness. Your first handful of relationships are super rocky and bizarre. You don’t know what you’re doing, but you think you do. You picture someone as a lifelong partner. You start fantasizing about exchanging last names and then you grow up. You’re an adult and you go, “Wow, I didn’t know nothin back then.”

Most importantly, we have to forgive ourselves. I’m not saying this to denounce anyone. I’m saying we all need to have forgiveness of ourselves and to be understanding of each other. We’re all learning and growing. It never ends. Even at this point in my experience, I’m still learning all the time. I make mistakes often. People ask me, “How did you get here as an alt relationship educator?” and I tell them, “I fucked up a lot and then I figured out how I fucked up and how to fuck up less. “

I was actually going to ask if you’re willing to talk about any of your personal mistakes you might have made along the way.

Sure! That’s a big reason why I’m in these shoes today. I have no shame or qualms about admitting my failures and people appreciate that. It puts them at ease that they’re not some pathetic freak and that I’m some god of this stuff, because I’m not. I’m in a position of undeserved authority.

Ok here’s one: I was about two years into my relationship with Wicked. We’re going to have our four year anniversary next week.

Congratulations!

Thank you! Some people struggle to remember one anniversary. I’ve got three to remember. So I had a crush on this other girl for years, many years. And we had started dating each other. We had been dating about two months and I was overly excited. This was a big crush come true for me. She was excited and so was I and I got caught up in what’s called New Relationship Energy. NRE is a pretty common term in this community. In a nut shell, it’s an overwhelming amount of excitement and bonding with a new partner, also known as the Honeymoon Period.

It usually lasts three to six months, but you get caught up. And that’s not a problem when you’re only seeing one person, but when you already have established partners that can be very unnerving for them. It can feel like they’re not good enough or they’re being replaced. Abandonment issues can crop up. Or just the envy of, “Wow, you’re so excited for her. Why aren’t you that excited for me still? You used to be excited for me. I don’t mind that you’re excited for her. I just want you to be equally excited for me too.”

I’ve experience a lot of “me too.” That envy versus jealousy is an important distinction. Thinking I want to take it from you is jealousy vs. just me too. And now to circle around back to me point, here’s the mistake I made: I’m laying in bed next to Wicked texting this other girl and me and Wicked had just had sex and we’d just finished cuddling and were just chilling. But now I’m literally just laying there for ten minutes texting this other girl right next to Wicked. At some point, Wicked had enough of that and spoke up and said, “Do you have to do that right now?” And this wasn’t the first time that I’d been caught up in texting this new girl while with Wicked. I just had to admit it. Whoa. I really fucked up. I have to stop doing this. That’s it. And then we had to negotiate what was reasonable. I like to be responsive so if anyone texts me, I’ll send 1 or 2 texts back, but that’s it. You gotta cut it off at a respectful point.

That’s a really good example.

It’s important to remember that I’m in an undeserved position of authority. I have no license, no urge to get a license, no degree in this field, because there really isn’t one besides being a therapist. And I’m never going to seek that license, because I don’t want to be held back by anything. Licensing boards can be very discriminatory regarding what you say to the public and whether you can keep your license or not.

I want to be an open book. I want to tell the world about my mistakes and successes and all the naughty stuff that I do. This is my life. With that in mind, no one is the ultimate authority in these fields, even someone as legendary as Janet or Tristan or any of the other people that will be on stage with me across the nation. I purposely make a panel on that stage, not a singular voice. I’m not making a lecture. I don’t have a lesson plan. And we disagree on that stage by design.

It’s important to remember that once you break outside of hundreds of years of hetero-normativity, now you’re rewriting all of the rules and redefining everything. You’re coining new words. In the end, each person is their own personal authority and then later, you can learn from your mistakes and change your mind.

Having gained experience in multiple forms of non-monogamous relationship since 2002, Ryan “Wry” Mantione advocates being well-informed regarding options and alternatives to a hetero-normative, traditional love life, as well as maintaining dialogue with partners. Wry has featured as a speaker or panelist at the following: International Polyamory Conference 2015 at Berkeley,SPLA’s Redefining Sex in the 21st Century held at UCLA, Psychology of Close Relationships course at Harvey Mudd College, Infinite Love Community, and DomCon LA. you can contact Wry via his website or Fetlife.

nontraditional relationships

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