dating

Kinky dating vanilla? Don’t waste your time.

August 3, 2020 By Desdemona 121 Comments

submissive poly woman is looks sad while experiencing some feelings — via stock.adobe.com

Are you a kinky, and dating a vanilla girlfriend / boyfriend, or even got to the point that they are now your husband or wife? Take my advice – don’t waste any more of your precious time…

If you are regular reader of this web site, then it’s highly likely you are kinky. And by kinky, I don’t mean that you like to spice things up with your partner once and a while with some silk scarves. I mean that BDSM is in your blood… your DNA even. And you likely spend a good amount of time playing with it, fantasizing about it, or living it.

You may have always known you were kinky – since before you even knew what sex was, you were drawn to situations and depictions involving power exchange and bondage. Or you may have had a particular moment when your kink was awakened – perhaps with a partner introducing you to BDSM – which was akin to letting the genie out of the bottle (there’s no getting it back in there).

My point is – people are either kinky or they are not. Vanilla people cannot be made kinky, just as kinky cannot be made vanilla.

And so when a kinky person and a vanilla person date (and maybe even fall in love), it can never end well. And yet this is this is a problem that comes up time and time again, played out by almost every kinky person I have met (and I know a lot of kinky people), sometimes over and over again.

Take me. I have had several long terms relationships (each more than 2 years) since my late teens. In each case, we met and felt a strong chemistry and a deep attraction. Each of my exes was beautiful in her own distinct way – and engaging, funny, likeable. Of course, we had ups and downs in the course of our relationships, as all couples do. But they were good women, and each time we laughed together, grew and experienced new things, and traveled to exotic and wonderful places.

And yet in each case, kink was a divide between us. And ultimately, the reason that the relationships could not last.

Don’t get me wrong – none of these women I dated were prudes. In fact, they were quite sexual and adventurous in their own way. They were up for trying new things, playing with some toys and trying out experiences. But with respect to BDSM, there was always a point after which the novelty wore off and they conceded that they just weren’t really that into it.

I, like you, am kinky. When it comes to BDSM, I love every letter of the acronym. And since joining the kinky community, I have met hundreds of kinky people in LA and all over the world. And each time I do, I feel that connection of speaking with someone who is like me, who gets me.

And from my conversations with all of these kinky people I have met, I have heard so many stories just like mine. Of years or even decades from teenage years through adulthood, when these kinksters were figuring out their own identity and sexuality. Trying to understand why they liked these things that were strange and deviant to regular folks, realizing they needed to keep certain desires to themselves. And then reigniting and fully realizing those desires upon the thrilling discovery of the kink community.

All of these people had similar stories of ex-boyfriends, ex-girlfriends, ex-husbands, ex-wives, who they had tried to introduce to kink. Trying to get their man to dominate them, or get their girlfriend to tie them up. So many relationships where ultimately they failed because the kinky person could not get their needs met. Because vanilla people cannot be made kinky.

And it is terrible. When you love someone and love being with them, but know deep down that there is an important part of yourself that your partner just doesn’t understand, and never will.

It had made me question my kinkiness at times. Made me wonder if I can push it aside, forget about it, grow out of it, bury it. Somehow “cure” myself of kink. And now of course I know that is ludicrous – in the same category as trying to “pray away the gay” – it’s just not possible. And of course the other thing I know now is that I wouldn’t want to de-kink myself, even if I could. Because without kink, I would not have met all of the amazing people I now know in the community, or felt the joy and the high of a scene with play partner, or the deep connection of D/s.

So I would say this: if you know you are kinky, don’t waste your time getting into a relationship with a vanilla person. The further into it you get, the more difficult and heart-wrenching it will become for both of you to leave later.

Now, that isn’t to say you can’t go on some dates with people who aren’t overtly kinky. After all, sometimes it takes a little while before someone opens up about things like this. It’s worth getting to know someone well enough to know for sure. But don’t beat around the bush, and don’t hide that it’s an important factor for you in dating.

One caveat is that it is possible that you might meet someone who is kinky but hasn’t discovered that side of themselves yet. They might need some encouragement to “awaken” their kink. I do think that is pretty rare in western culture now though – given the massive publicity and exposure that BDSM has received in recent times.

What to do if you are in a long term relationship already with a vanilla, and either have finally accepted the importance of kink to yourself, or realized that your partner just isn’t kinky? My advice is to end it. Be gentle about it, be compassionate about it, communicate with them, support them. But do it.

No doubt there are all kinds of “what if’s” that might be thrown at me in response to this. And there may be some pretty gnarly ones… not the least of which is marriage and children. And ultimately, no one but you knows the ins and outs of your situation and so I can’t tell you definitively what is right for you.
But what I can tell you is about all the people I have met in the community who finally did realize they needed to embrace their kinky selves. Some of whom waited until they were in their 30s, or 40s, or 50s, or 60s, or 70s, before biting the bullet and doing it and that once they did, they realized that they had finally found themselves, their community, their people. And almost all wished that they had the courage to do it much, much sooner.

There is one exception that I would add to all of this. Occasionally, a kinky person may be in a relationship with someone vanilla where the relationship is so open, trusting, positive and strong, that the kinky person can go out and explore the community and play with others, without it damaging or impacting on the bond of that relationship. I have seen this work long-term in a couple of cases. So if you are in this situation then you are very fortunate and you should make the most of your freedom to explore. But if you aren’t, and you try forcing your relationship into this mold, you may find it very difficult and ultimately unsuccessful.

Have you found yourself in a relationship with a vanilla person that you wished was kinky? I would love to hear about it in the comments section below.

Writer, photographer, hedonist, Dom. After years of at-home BDSM, Dexx finally embraced the kink community and met many fantastic fellow kinksters in the scene. Along the way, it occurred to him that it would be just super if there was a magazine-style web site which catered to people interested in BDSM, and he recruited some of his friends to help create it.

Poly Dating vs. Childbirth (just go with it)

August 7, 2017 By Jenn Masri 4 Comments

I know what you’re thinking – “WHAAAA????” Just stick with me here and I’ll explain.

A discussion came up at the most recent SoCal Poly Support Group meeting about poly dating. Somebody was sharing some bits and pieces about their dating life – the highs and lows (as I’m sure most people have experienced, poly or not). This person said that their opinion was that it was easier to date an already established poly couple as opposed to a “singleton” – someone who is dating and perhaps has partners but not an anchor partner. They said it had mainly to do with ambiguity vs. established structure. That when they dated singletons (did I make this term up? Is there another term I should be using? Let me know.) it felt very ambiguous and unstructured. They were unsure of where they stood or who they were to the other person. Yet when they dated established couples OR one half of an established couple, the rules were laid out and they went into it knowing the expectations, etc. for the relationship.

As I sat there and listened – others spoke up – some in agreement and some with opposing views. I thought back to the various poly structures I’d been involved with over the years. I thought about the differences – both in the beginning and as the relationships went on. Somehow my strange mind went to childbirth. I have had two children. One vaginally and one via C-section. I was listening to people say how much “easier” it is to date couples or part of a couple and that brought back memories of people telling me that a C-section was so much “easier” than vaginal birth. They weren’t wrong. Yet they left out the part about recovery and the road being much longer after that “easy” C-section.

Finally I spoke up. “Dating a couple vs. a singleton is like vaginal childbirth vs. a C-section.”
After the initial response of confusion and curiosity and “Huh??’s”, I tried to explain. Dating a couple or part of a couple can seem easier in the beginning due to the reasons this person stated – rules and expectations are already basically in place. Just like the C-section, this initial phase is smooth sailin’. However, in both scenarios you never know how it will be long term. While it’s possible to continue on a smooth course with the couple (or half of a couple) it can also very easily turn rocky. Just as after the initial drugs wear off after surgery – you may just need a couple pain meds or you may end up feeling like if you stand up too fast all your guts are gonna fall out. (true story) This is because you are trying to fit into another established dynamic. That dynamic may be stable or, in many cases it may not.

On the other hand if you are dating a singleton – this can start off with ambiguity and instability because nothing has been established yet. There is difficulty much of the time in creating structure, rules, expectations, etc. from the ground up with someone new. Just like going thru the pain and difficulty of vaginal childbirth. (See where I’m going with this?) However, once you can get through that and establish a solid foundation (yes this can take years) – the long term may come with a more peaceful current. Just as there is some pain in recovery from vaginal birth – it was nothing compared to recovering from my C-section. I was back to “normal” much faster.

It isn’t a perfect metaphor and no example will ever cover all cases. This represents some of my poly experiences as well as others’ I know. It also represents my childbirth experiences which can also be very different for different people. I just thought it was an interesting comparison and, quite honestly, the support group encouraged me to make an article out of it. So there ya have it. Poly dating being compared to how you get a baby human out of your body. I hope you’ve enjoyed the read!

Jennifer Masri is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, specializing in Alternative Lifestyles for individual and relationship issues. She also teaches the BDSM 101 class series at Sanctuary LAX in Los Angeles every Monday evening. Read more about Jennifer on her blog, A Kink Shrink.

Power Exchange Dating: Part Three

August 15, 2016 By Mistress Sky 2 Comments

Read parts one and two here.

The Search for a S-type Life Partner

This is the last of three articles that considers what dating issues to keep in mind if you want to ease on into a power exchange partnership. This article is for those who want to find their S – type (submissive or slave).

How can I know if my dating partner is The One? Let’s think of how a person prepares to be in a power exchange relationship. Just how does a dominant dating person sharpen their focus to reach a goal of finding their S (submissive or slave)?

Things to Know from the Get-go
Think of dating as your own personal system of discovery. Your goal should always be dominance/submission partnership. Always be headed toward negotiations. Negotiations officially mark the beginning of a wonderful structured (your agreements) relationship.

How Prepared are You to Be a Partner
Dominant is not domineering. Dominance/submission calls for real leadership. You can check out your leadership muscles by reading business leadership classics like Whale Done by Kenneth Blanchard. Peter Masters’ The Control Book is excellent for understanding the power dynamic. Additionally, Raven Kaldera’s Building the Team and Dear Raven and Joshua teach a M/s model that shows D-type and the S-type responsibilities as complementary. Read a lot.

Dominants take the most responsibility for the structural elements of the relationship. Expect to have the most focus on macro items like the direction of the relationship. Find a good mentor if you are new. Cultivate healthy community for yourself now and later for you and your partner.

Be prepared to articulate an excellent description of your understanding of dominance/submission. Be ready to answer questions about how you would like to proceed. Be flexible in your thinking. Practice inclusive decision making so that you and your partner can act as an effective team.

In the Big Picture What Should a S-type Be?
Self-assurance, self-respect, and self-development equal healthy self-efficacy as opposed to dependency. Learn to recognize the difference. How well does the S-type speak up about their needs?

Think of the S-type as the implementing partner. The implementing partner takes your mutually held goals and runs with them. You want a good follow-through kind of partner. You should be experiencing their supportive energy and actions even as you date.

Your right person consistently will show you kindness, respect, and support as your dating history accumulates.

What are the Traits of Your Ideal S – type?
Know what your Dealbreakers are and be honest enough to discuss these openly and early. Your Must Have list should be short if it is to be realistic. Now, keep these in mind but hold them loosely, not with a closed-minded iron hand.

You, the dominant, must lead explicit discussions about control in the relationship. You should really like and enjoy the S-person’s reactions to what you have to say. How you handle yourself in one situation after another should be a shared pleasure.

Notice when your Big, Bad Dom(me) energy seems to rise to the surface. This is a good clue about the S-partner that you need. Can you associate this feeling with any people traits? For instance, in the movies a strong, independent hero(ine) comes on the screen and your dom(me) energy swells. Or, the hero part of the film comes and you see yourself as that hero saving the day for some curly haired, dimple-cheeked sub girl or boy. Was it the dark curly hair or the dimples that did it for you?

What Should You Avoid While Power Exchange Dating?
We, all, want to avoid dishonest, unethical people. Ask the person you are dating for references and check them. If they balk then consider their absence in your life as no loss.

You want to avoid manipulation and power grabs. Power With, not Power Over. Power With refers to sharing and true consent throughout the relationship, inclusiveness, excellent communication strategies, and empowerment for all. Power Over equals abuse. At the first signs of manipulation you have serious decisions to make about whether you are going forward. As for power grabs from the S side, watch out for struggles over control. You want to be vigilant about control that’s been ceded to you but then withdrawn later—a power grab from the S side. Such struggles can be dealt with or maybe this isn’t your person.

Some S-types will seem to run out of energy and/or lose focus as time passes. In that case, avoid a second date.

Always be Headed toward Negotiations
You, the dominant, should want to conclude dating with formal negotiations. Be gracious even if your date isn’t The One for You at This Time. But with one or more prospective S-types you’ll notice an easy partnership forming over time. Through your agreement-making you and your S-type partner are forming a vision of who you want to be. Congrats.

Mistress Sky is a tantra practitioner, bondage queen, and hypnotist. Professionally, Sky is a life positive counselor for alternative lifestyles at Gates Counseling. She gives presentations and workshops and writes about Unequal Partnership, the dominance/submission model that she developed over the last ten years.

Power Exchange Dating: Part Two

August 8, 2016 By Mistress Sky 2 Comments

Read part one here.

Dating Search for the Just Right Dominant

How can I know if my dating partner is The One? When we consider this question in a dominance/submission light it becomes more than just a dating advice question. Let’s consider how a dating person might sharpen their focus to increase the likelihood of finding their D (dominant).

This is the second of three articles that consider what issues to keep in mind if you want to ease on into a D/S (M/s) partnership. This article is for those who seek a D-type.

Things to Know from the Get-go
1. First, distinguish in your own mind that you are different from the general dating crowd.
2.You want a life partner who is strongly committed to power exchange. You want them to build a long-term sustainable loving relationship . . . with you.
3.Consider what you have to offer a potential mate, as well.
4.Then, date. Have fun. Think of dating as your own personal system of discovery.
5.Your goal should be to settle into dominance/submission partnership.
6.Last, always be headed toward negotiations. Negotiations officially mark the beginning of a wonderful structured (agreement-based) relationship.

How Prepared are You to Be a Partner
Yes, it really is a good idea to give some honest thought to your own preparedness. Think “partner” all the while you are dating. “Partner” in short means being a continuously active contributor toward the good health of the relationship. So, what do you have to offer? Maybe, you are college-educated or highly skilled. Are you a professional chef or a wonderful home cook? Organizational skills? How developed are your soft skills such as being a really good listener, having patience, being observant?

How able are you to speak about your needs? Can you speak up for yourself? It’s a good idea to work on being a clear communicator.

In the Big Picture What Should a D-type Be?
You want to see self-assurance, self-respect, and evidence that self-development is important. What kind of dominance/submission is this person practicing? The dominant takes the most responsibility for structural elements like where the relationship is going and monitoring the health of the relationship. Is this the relationship container that you want to walk into and live within? How much experience does this person have? Do you mind if they have little experience and are proposing that you learn together? If that’s the case, then what’s their plan for learning?

What are the Traits of Your Ideal D–type?
Notice how your date behaves with other people. How decisive are they? How kind are they? Where is the evidence that they genuinely care about others? Know what your Dealbreakers are.

Write down your own deeply-held Must Haves. Perhaps you feel a deep thrill inside when you submit to a big-bodied, physically strong dominant. Perhaps, what your Deeper Self is hungry for is a big brain intellectual. Maybe at the top of your list is a very spiritually-oriented dominant. Maybe an energetic, fun, goofy personality or a sports lover is what gets your gut excited.

What Should You Avoid While Power Exchange Dating?
Vet your prospective dominant. Your search is for someone who is ethical and caring. Ask the person you are dating for references and check them. If they balk then consider their absence in your life as no loss.

Remember—deference is in your submissive hands. You and the dominant should be able to talk explicitly about control. As long as you are comfortable with the slanting of power and control then great. Did it happen at a deliberate pace that makes you feel good? Are you giving up some control because you want to do so?

You want to avoid manipulation and power grabs. Dominance does not mean domineering. Dominance should always mean true leadership. A real leader practices Power With, not Power Over. Power With refers to sharing, true consent throughout the relationship, inclusiveness, excellent communication strategies, and empowerment for all. Power Over equals abuse.

Use your intuition to stay safe. It’s a natural alarm system. Listen to it and ACT. If a situation supports your empowerment then go forth. If your gut is gripping tight even a little then HOLD UP. If things are questionable now during dating don’t think that they will improve once you, two, commit. Don’t make excuses for the other person’s behavior.

Don’t feel stuck. Ever. Initial consent is not final. Repeatedly review if you have what you want and if this is what makes you giddy.

Always be Headed toward Negotiations
Now, you are considering this person seriously. You will have noticed an easy partnership forming over time. Time for formal negotiations. Some people like relationship contracts, a non-legal document that sets down your agreements. It feels great to form agreements and live by them. With or without a contract, your joint intention is to meet all needs. Go forth into your wonderful future as a healthy, happy D/s (M/s) couple negotiating again and again as needed.

Power Exchange Dating: Part One

August 1, 2016 By Mistress Sky 2 Comments

While there is plenty of kink to be had solo there is no power exchange without a partner or partners. Gotta get out there and rub yourself a little somethin’. Mingle. Talk to people. Engage with the kinky masses. Once you do, you may not call what you do “dating” and that’s okay. But, is that just because it’s happening inside the BDSM world?

This is the first of three articles that will discuss dating for those of us who love the power exchange. The world would spin a little better if everyone or, at least, some of us, kinky people, could find their best partners. Here are two strategies that might give power exchange seekers their best chance: kink play and vanilla dating.

Dating Strategy #1: Kink play/relationship
Kinky singles may start their search for a prospective mate at munches, clubs, and at kink events. Within these like-minded herds a kinky single can get busy: talking with people, watching or participating in demos, and probably with play. Kinky singles are everywhere. That’s true: private parties, kink events, ticket-purchase public parties, conferences, and clubs.

Public or private play might give you your first experiences with negotiations with the person you like. Remember that negotiations are not a guarantee. Rather, negotiations are an exercise in working cooperatively. They are an active proof of whether you should go forward. Doesn’t that sound something like negotiating later to see if you should go forward into a relationship?

Your play experiences, public or private, are likely to be good relationship practice. Play partners have to trust each other. Play partners have to communicate well. Play partners have to be flexible and work together. Kinky play done well can give you good practice being a good listener. You can practice speaking up for yourself. Play sessions will help you with being sensitive to your partner’s needs.

Sex can be part of your assessment. Sex for some people demonstrates how well or not a desirable shift in power has happened. Did control already defer to the dominant? How much control? Are the dating partners ready to commit?

Dating Strategy #2: start with vanilla dating
In strategy number two we have vanilla people who might cross over into the kink world. They continue into a kink-centric, power exchange relationship. Their deliberate agreements and commitment are kink normal. If they had remained in the vanilla world they might only have known about the boyfriend/girlfriend model. It says that love is enough to support making a life together. The ubiquitous vanilla world, boyfriend/girlfriend model is not known for its deliberate or explicit agreement–making as necessary.

A woman at a munch spoke about why vanilla dating still had value for kinky people. She said that you have to know each other first.

It’s also possible that kinky people may step out for a little vanilla dating activity. Sure, why not. The dating couple can step into non-kink as a deliberate choice. Their challenge is to know each other better. They might see a few new movies, stroll along the lake, travel to the Caribbean, and take up rock climbing before returning to BDSM environments and the lifestyle.

A dominant male once said, “there is life and self outside of kink that has to be dealt with.” In his own life, by way of example, there’s how to coordinate three live-in adults and a part-time adult plus X–number of children all in one household.

Think about vanilla dating as a means for trust building. Imagine brave kinky couples contemplating a committed relationship. They are taking their negotiating skills, their play scene partnering experiences, and more from the kink world into the vanilla world. The test is whether they can like and love each other as equals first. They’ll apply the higher level of trust that they’ve worked to achieve to a relationship as dominant and sub/slave. Their kink muscles will be stronger and serve them well along the whole journey of growing closer.

Multiple Paths to Dating Success
On either of these paths or their variations anyone wanting a successful dating result should take a high interest in their date’s wants and needs. Avoid using people just as a means to get what you want. By concentrating on your dating partner’s needs you are more likely to find the pleasure and satisfaction you sought for yourself. The power exchange requires strong partnering. Behaving like a partner even in a light sense during dating can only set a solid footing toward the stable, long-term relationship you most desire.

Coming Out of the Closet(S)!

May 17, 2016 By Jenn Masri 2 Comments

So many closets, so little time. Well, ok, only two closets, however, I’ve had to come out of them again and again.
When you hear that someone “came out of the closet” you may think, “Good for them, it’s a big step and now they don’t have to worry about it anymore.” What people may not realize is that once you come out – that’s just the FIRST time. Essentially you have to come out every time you meet someone new or run into an old friend or family member who perhaps wasn’t around when you made the big announcement. (That’s how everyone comes out by the way – big loudspeaker type pronouncement over the radio or in a stadium.)

Every time you tell someone new, you run the same risk you did the first time. Will they react positively or with criticism? Will your relationship with them change after this conversation?

When I came out the first time it was at the age of 17 and I came out to my friends as bisexual. (FYI – this is still how I identify – I know – SHOCKER – it wasn’t just a phase…..) I am proud to say I have wonderful friends who totally accepted me and had no issue. I got involved with my LGBT group on my college campus and dated the only other bisexual girl in the group because the lesbians wanted nothing to do with us. (That’s a topic for another day) Fortunately she was just my type and we had a nice time together. It was, however, a short romance and pretty soon after we broke up I started dating the man I would eventually marry.

Fast forward 15 years, marriage, two kids and one divorce later. Time to get back out into the dating pool. I cast out my net to any and all on the typical dating sites. Met a few great people – not great matches however. Then I met a woman – an amazing woman. We dated for a couple years with some bumps in the road. However, it was a serious relationship and I felt that it was time to come out to my parents. Until this point I was “relatively out” – meaning I was out to everyone except my relatives!

So there I was, in my 30’s, coming out to my parents. Thankfully they are both totally supportive. My dad thought perhaps it was a post-divorce phase until I explained that she was not my first female partner.

So then there was the kink/BDSM closet that I had newly discovered as I was going thru my divorce. For many people kink is something they do in the bedroom and they never feel the need to “come out” about it. However, for me it wasn’t only my lifestyle, it was also my job. Only a couple years into the scene I worked as a pro-sub and then a pro-Switch. I eventually felt the pressure to open up to my mom because she kept asking so many questions about my new job in “customer service”. Nice cover, right? Fortunately it coincided with the 50 Shades trilogy and my mom happened to be reading the first one. I used that to come out to her. Her biggest concern was my safety and my happiness. I assured her that I was both safe and happy. She was supportive. She has even attended one of my classes to try and gain more of an understanding – which I thought was super awesome of her!

Shortly thereafter I told my dad and he was accepting as well. All of my friends know and I’m not shy talking about it with new friends I meet. I am a bit more cautious with friends connected to my kids. However, if you read my article titled The Outsider, you will see I didn’t have much to worry about.

I know that many people don’t feel they can come out about their orientation, their BDSM lifestyle, or perhaps both. They may fear family shame, ridicule, or job loss. As for me I feel extremely fortunate to be able to live my life openly.
I am at the point now in my life (perhaps some of it just comes with age) where I figure if you don’t accept me (and all that I am) then I don’t need you in my life. If you want to know more, however, just ask and I will answer any question you have!
I come out of two closets again and again….and I’m proud of both!

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